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I don't have much time, but I did'nt want to leave the house without sending a comment. The Wolf articles are great keep it up.


I enjoy reading the articles everyday- the more the merrier!!


I like today's article for a couple of reasons that are beyond the scope of this forum.

One questions that pops into my mind as I read this article, and I am not sure anyone can answer. Why is grass fed beef more expensive than grain fed beef? If grain fed beef is tied to the grain production, and transportation is tied to oil, how can it be cheaper with the dependencies of transporting and buying of grain to feed cattle? Common sense would allow me to think grass fed beef to be less expensive since the feed is naturally occurring and renewable. Anything I am missing here? Such as, subsidies that drive grain prices down to an absurd level for cattle farmers? Or is it BS that grass fed is better and should carry a higher price and the consumer is uneducated and willing to pay more for the product?


Schmiggy, shoot me an email when you get a minute - karen.kelly@ic.fbi.gov


J. Marcis

WCCFers - who's up for the GLOBE (unofficial WCCF bar) after Josh on Saturday?


So, does after Josh mean after the 11 am workout?


i'm in for the GLOBE on saturday and i just signed up for the WCCF Mailing List - hot damn!

J. Marcis

Yes, probably around 12-12:30pm - if there is interest.

Matlas - we found your hat.


Fair warning on going to the globe this Saturday in the afternoon. This Saturday, international soccer games around the globe are played for world cup qualifying. In the past the globe charges at the door to come into the bar during international days. We might want to verify this before making a decision.


As I understand it, yields on grass fed beef are lower (you can get a corn fed cow up to slaughter weight in a year, takes longer with grass fed). Although grass fed beef is nutritionally superior (and I think it tastes a lot better), the U.S. would need to develop a lot of pasture land in order to switch all current domestic beef production over to grass fed.


Haven't read the article yet, but I have an answer to Doogie's question on the cost. And I am up for drinks after Josh (I can meet around 1)

The reason why grass fed beef is more expensive than grain fed beef basically boils down to the amount of land that is required to maintain.

For grain fed beef, the cattle are kept in feed lots, which can house around 100 cattle per acre. Grain-fed also means grain, silage, and hay which are all pretty cheap.

For grass fed beef, the cattle require a much larger amount of land. Grass fed cattle need about an acre per 2-3 cattle which means a LOT more land is required to maintain (allows for regrowth, etc). Also, with the amount of land, more ranch hands are needed to maintain the land/cattle, etc.

And before anyone asks, the guy I sit next to at work used to live on a ranch.

J. Marcis

Good point - any other suggestions out there?


It is 10 dollars to get in Saturday afternoon, if we watch the England soccer game.


grassfed = climate, as well :( midwest weather sucks with fall/winter dominating the year.. makes hard for grazing year-round. boo. can't win (pessimism settles in, right on time). that makes me sad, it is sooo much better for us.


Hey Sean (or anyone else) -

Random Zone question. When calculating your base Protein need (using Activity Factor), what is the general Activity Factor used for someone doing CrossFit 5x week? Approximately .8 or so? Or is the 4 protein blocks/meal a better/simpler measure?

J. Marcis

Love the discussion on grass-fed vs grain-fed!

Regarding Saturday... How about Brownstone or WCCF old haunt O'Donovans? Let me know your thoughts.


.7 - itsa activity multiplier for the 'day'.. you'd bump it up if say you were doing two WODs a day or a WOD in the morning, and say playing a sport at night... make sense? .8 would be suitable for crossfit + a sport.

Love O'Donovan's .


In my opinion Brownstone has better food. But, I like both places.

Li'l Jon


According to Robb Wolf, use a .7 multiplier if you do CrossFit and nothing else. .8 if you do another sport like BJJ or something. That being said, everyone is different. I tried .7 and my LBM went down. So I upped it to .75--still went down. Finally at .8 it stayed constant. Right now I'm trying to gain some mass, and I'm at 20 blocks. (.8 is 15 blocks for me.) I also generally eat and fast. Yesterday I ate all 20 blocks at 5x fat in 2 hours. Fun stuff.

I'd say try .7 and see what happens.

Awesome video, by the way. So many faces I've never seen before. I miss you guys. I'm totally visiting over the summer.


Sean and Li'l Jon - Thanks for the advise. During the winter, my other "sport" is bowling, so I will start with .7

O'Donovans vs. Brownstone - Depending on the number of people, O'Donovans may be a better option simply b/c of size. Although I would be lying if I said the House Salad (sans Blue Cheese) at Brownstone isn't one of my favorite meals.

And I DON'T want the record for most posts in a day, but I would like to have just one post be worthy of Cal's Top 50.


on a sidenote, either location works perfectly fine for me (o'ds is preferably just closer to my home. selfish.)


Justin - Where was it? I looked all over the gym.


wow - Dr Doogie Howser ? hmmmm

J - i like the articles a lot. The net has to much for me to shift thru, I like the direction of WCCF and all the articles...keep'm coming.

Also, i only reguirmant of a bar is good nachos

J. Marcis

Matlas - found it on the tire, off all places.

Dan T

While I normally like Robb Wolf’s nutrition articles, I really think he needs to stay away from the political analysis of his recommendations because what he's spouting here in the last couple of paragraphs is what can only be described as half-thought Social Darwinism.

“The best way to control ALL these problems is some kind of population control and ironically, the best population control is prosperity. Rich nations have fewer children.”

Wow. Rich nations also tend to have greater access to reproductive health and family planning resources. Rich nations also tend towards equal human rights, where sexual consent is legally enforced. Also, how do rich nations exactly become rich nations, Rob?

This kind of BS reasoning negatively highlights the “elite” aspect of “forging elite fitness.”

The paleo diet has always seemed to me to be likely unsustainable if everyone were to implement it into their daily lives. In fact, it says this directly in one of the articles Rob links to:

"The meat-based food system requires more energy, land, and water resources than the lactoovovegetarian diet. In this limited sense, the lactoovovegetarian diet is more sustainable than the average American meat-based diet."

So while even though both diets are a drain on precious resources, they are not the same drain. Maybe the bigger issue should be focused on calories consumed vs. calories expended.

I say this having tried going on a strict paleo diet myself (but it got expensive quick), but I say it also having done research in a community like Chicago’s Riverdale neighborhood, where the median income hovers around $13,000 and the nearest grocery store requires most citizen’s to travel via two buses or walk the three miles on intermittent sidewalks. How exactly are they going to achieve better nutritional health unless there is some kind of institutional intervention, Rob?


There's a pretty interesting documentary out there called "King Corn". I'd recommend it to anyone who's interested in grain fed beef, HFCS, etc. It's amazing just how much corn we actually eat here in the US. What I found to be particularly disconcerting was the fact that the vast majority of the corn that's grown here in the sunny midwest, is basically inedible and devoid of any nutritional value.

The movie isn't preachy, alarmist, or Michael Moore-esque in anyway. It's actually quite funny and charming. It just makes you realize that you are, indeed, what you eat.


I'm in for Saturday post-workout drinks!


I think you raise really important questions about how personal health is related to community and global health. I'm not sure its enough for us to think only of how the food we eat impacts our own health. There a so many considerations when thinking about how food impacts community and global health. It seems somewhat short sighted of the blogger to assume that their unproven approach is the "best" approach. For example, many studies show vegetarian diets to promote overall cardiovascular health and lower rates of obesiety and diabetes. These diets may or may not positively impact the larger environment and global economy depending on how and where the food is grown. And, as you say, many communities and whole countries are severly limited in their access to quality, affordable food- "food deserts" are rampant even in our own city and basically make it impossible for many people to consume paleo, vegetarian, organic or other specialized diets.

I question the factual basis of many of the bloggers statements. China, for example, has serious health and safety issues at both the individual and national level. Likewise, national health case systems have proven effective in a number of countries (think Scandiavia)- although of course, the context of the US system makes this point somewhat moot. He cites only one artcile per arguement, which is hardly convincing evidence given the complexity of this issue. Needless to say, he raises important points about food and has helped us start an interested conversation, so kudos to that.

In conclusion, vegetarians rule, all the rest are fools! -K

Kim H

Love the video, love the articles too. I prefer 1 article/day, though. I think it offers a better opportunity to discuss on the board. Thanks!


Well said Dan T. Well said.

Quite frankly with the way the population on this planet is going combatted with the pace of global warming I am not sure what people will be eating in 50-100 years.


Oh yeah I can go either way with Odonny's or the Brownstone.


I have not seen King Corn. I have, however, been to the Corn Palace (which is made of corn, see). If there is a King Corn, I expect to find him there.

I don't have anything to say about the content of Robb's article itself. All this blogging has me squarely stuck in the middle of an existential inspection: are we talking about our own arguments about information couched in arguments and informed opinion, in your opinion? If so, the Internet has just become the Fast Food of knowledge and we've become a teeming mass of nutrient-empty meta-Meursaults, bumbling along and exchanging cheap DNA with each other and making our way thickly through an entire endless ocean of studented adult anomie but yet (and here's the rub) also the whole while playing hunter-and-hunted; I, white-whaling it from top of sea to bottom, from epiplagic heights to the hadal, and you desperately and longingly -- you playing fully Cpt.Ahab to my Mby.Dick -- watch needfully as I hungrily strip our Ocean of Opinion of its own briny altuisms with greedy, yawning mouthful after gaping, voluminous mouthful -- a gaping, awesome maw-ful of Hopeful Purifying Baleen! There is only this brine, this gulping, our hunt: a perfectly natural hunting to know and contain this token of a beast, this wonderful myth of a beast! Together we are perfect, and separate we are dumb animals only! That's what blogs are!

Corn Palace, man. A whole palace made of corn. Serious. Like, the ENTIRE PLACE.


the corn palace?!? yeah...i played basketball there a couple times in college. cornholio!!!


Calls for population control are usually not based on a lot of facts.

According to the UN (here: http://www.un.org/esa/population/publications/wpp2006/wpp2006.htm) the birth rates for almost all countries are declining at a good clip.


if "paleo" could result in "optimal health" then great. "optimal" is by far not necessary for survival. let's not blame science and human evolution for over consumption, resource depletion and economical inequalities.

-if you can't eat wild caught fish and grass-fed meat THEN 'up your omega-3 fish oil tablets.

-if you can't afford paleo THEN eat low-gi (glycemic index) foods

-if you can't afford low-gi-foods THEN eat controlled amounts of shitty food

-if you can't afford enough protein for 20blk/day zone meals THEN goto Aldi and get some canned tuna and salmon. one can of canned "wild caught salmon" from trader joes is $2.69, at ALDI it's $1.79.. that can is exactly the same besides the label and contains 4 servings of 27g of Protein.. thats about 4, 4block meals worth of protein for about 2 bucks. suck it up, season the shit out of it and consume. OR if you're vegan/vegetarian and you can maintain your lean body mass and health without fish/meat/poultry,then you're doing something right, and thats badass!

i see most "eating methods" as pathways to health. you can't do them all and we all can't do one. shit just doesnt work that way. do what you can to feel good and detour sickness/disease.





PM Session:

Dan T. 205-225-235
Coco 95-115-125
Donna U. 85-95-105
Madigan 185-205-225
Steve B. 225-245(3)-225
Dwight 315-315-365
Petrazzini 205-205-185
Donna 125-140-140
Greg 225-245-255
Alain 155-165-185
Shannon 115-125-135
Newman 175-190-215
Harmon 165-175-?
Kolb 225-245(4)-245(3)
Schmiggy 225-245-245
Kate 105-115-130
Tita 75-85-100
Miles 115-125-135
Geoff 135-155-175
Foto 115-135(1)-125(3)
Nicole H. 125-135(3)-125
Alycia 55-55-55
K. 105-115-125
Kevin 225-275-225
Noah 185-205-225
Kaz 135-165-185
Ferrari 205-225-245
Lamb 95-95-95
Leo 235-245-245(4)

Oly Class Athletes:
Steve D.

Beastly lifting tonight done by all! I LOVE SEEING MEGA POUNDAGE MOVING THRU SPACE! WCCF Athletes ROCK!


just wanted to say thanx will for getting me started on a kipling pull up not there yet but its a start :)


Dan's intelligent, reasoned comment puts my short missive to shame.

But I agree with him 100% (Except the part for trying Paleo -- I can't get my act together that far).

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